I made these comments elsewhere and thought I might save them here.
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:5-14 AV)
There are several important facets to this passage, the first being who Christ is, the Light of the world. That is not the world of the elect for this world did not know Him and He certainly made more than the world of the elect. No, He is the Light of all the world. He lights every man that comes into the world. That is not just the elect world so it means all men regardless of their state or condition. Christ's purpose was to come so that all men might believe, to provide a provision not just for the elect of men, but all men as the passage states. Those who have received Him, believing on His name (trusting in Him) are given something, power the Apostle states, to become something, a child of God. It was not merit or works of the flesh or even their blood relationship in the nation of Israel that gave them a new birth as children of God. It was, as mentioned before, receiving Christ, believing on His name i.e. faith in the person and work of Christ. The passage demands one accept that it is by faith that one becomes born again, becomes a child of God.
There is no regeneration before faith. One believes in Jesus Christ by the grace of God to become born again. Even the little children know this much.
10 comments:
Actually, I like the parts you don't highlight.
"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
Who are "his own?" Who are the "world?"
His own, here, is set apart from the world. The world is different than his own. Plainly, the world is Gentiles and his own are Jews. Get that, and the passage becomes clearer.
The other part you didn't note: "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Those who believe WERE born, not will be born or were then born.
The "all men" is not a reference to every single man who ever lived, no, it refers to "as many as received him" from both the "world" and "his own." He didn't just come so that only the world could believe or that just the Jews, but that believes from both would be saved.
The other part you didn't note: "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Those who believe WERE born, not will be born or were then born.
Now, note the passage preceding this that you are not addressing.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
This is also a past tense. It is the receiving of Him that leads to becoming a son of God, becoming born of God.
Those who believe, not have or had believed, on his name are the ones who WERE born.
This passage does not support your position.
Now, move on in John--
John 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
What do you think "see" here refers to?
John 3 does not have regeneration preceding faith.
I just want to know whether you think “see” is entering in or actually seeing and wanting in?
Neither may teach what I believe, yet they definitely do not teach what you believe. However, continuing on in John will show for sure how one believes and comes.
“John 6:35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. “
--He who believes comes. Those who come are those whom the Father has given. (Note it does not say that all that come the Father will then give.) Therefore, those whom the Father gives believe then come. All that have been given WILL come and WILL be raised.
--He explains in verse 36 that those saw but did not believe, then in verse 37 he explains that they did not come, because they were not given him by the Father, since all the Father gives WILL come.
“41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? 43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. “
“44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life”
Verse 44 explains that no one can come except he is drawn. We both believe that.
Well, then, are all men drawn? No, because of the phrase “and I will.” The Father draws him and Jesus WILL raise him. There is no room for some who are drawn but do not come here.
Verse 45 explains that EVERY man who hears and learns comes. Ergo, every man who hears and learns was given by the Father, v. 37, and comes.
"The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe."
Do you find the "might" here bolsters your interpretation?
"He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."
What do you think the "lighteth" refers to?
"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him,"
I believe this section explains the passage. The world that knew him not was the Gentiles. "His own" were the Jews.
This explains the "all men." "All men" is inclusive of both Jew and Gentile, not every single man who ever lived. I think that's is your great mistake in the passage.
He came, not just so Jews would believe or not just Gentiles would believe, so "all men," Jews and Gentiles might believe.
John 6 exlains more of how this comes about.
I just want to know whether you think “see” is entering in or actually seeing and wanting in?
See is to enter in and to see, one must have faith.
I agree that "see" is actually entering in.
I disagree that this passage says what you say.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:"
For instance: To as many who fought in the battle, he gave the weapons to be the victors, even to them with the .50 calibers.
From that same construction, you say he gave the weapons after they fought, I disagree.
A.M.
You are correct, John 3 does not have regeneration preceding faith.
In fact regeneration NEVER precedes faith.
Faith always precedes regeneration.
There are no scriptures that teach regeneration occurs before faith.
Mr. Van Til,
It would appear you are saying a person is first again and then believes and then becomes a son of God.
If this is what you are saying, could you explain it physically and again spiritually. Any scripture that you feel supports your position please give.
Thanks
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