Striving to be ... Consistent ... Conservative ... Orthodox ... Evangelical ... Protestant ... Christocentric
2. We believe in one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who possesses perfect and exhaustive knowledge of the past, present, and future, and who preserves, regulates, governs and directs all things so that nothing in the world happens without either his causation or permission. God is the author of good but not of evil. Yet even evil is governed by God in that God limits it and directs it to an end fitting with his overall plan and purpose.
3. We believe that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human, having been conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He lived a sinless life, dying on the cross as a substitute and sacrifice for sinners. He arose bodily on the third day and ascended to the right hand of the Father. He will return personally and visibly at the end of the age to fully establish God's Kingdom.
4. We believe that part of the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and, during this age, to convict sinners, enable them to believe, regenerate the believing sinner, and indwell, guide, instruct, and empower the believer for godly living and service.
5. We believe that humanity was created in the image of God but fell from its original sinless state through willful disobedience and Satan's deception, resulting in eternal condemnation and separation from God. In and of themselves and apart from the grace of God human beings can neither think, will, nor do anything good, including believe. But the prevenient grace of God prepares and enables sinners to receive the free gift of salvation offered in Christ and his gospel. Only through the grace of God can sinners believe and so be regenerated by the Holy Spirit unto salvation and spiritual life. It is also the grace of God that enables believers to continue in faith as well as good in thought, will, and deed, so that all good deeds or movements that can be conceived must be ascribed to the grace of God.
6. We believe that the shed blood of Jesus Christ and his resurrection were provided for the salvation of all people, but are effective only for those who believe. Christ's death and resurrection provide the only ground for justification and salvation, and only those who believe in Jesus Christ become born of the Holy Spirit and thus become children of God.
7. We believe that God’s saving grace is resistible, that election unto salvation is conditional on faith in Christ, and that persevering in faith is necessary for final salvation.
8. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead; of believers to everlasting blessedness and joy with the Lord; and of unbelievers to judgment and eternal punishment.
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17 comments:
Amen, brother, and I plan on addressing this mess as well. I cannot tell you how troubled I am lately with those in our camp.
Yes, Mormons are not Christian, but if you are talking about the person I think you are, he didn't say that Mormons were Christian. Only that he had no idea himself since he had no knowledge of their theology.
JC, I would like to think that is true but as a theologian he should know better than make such comments on matters he might not know anything about. Given the various ecumenical outreaches that have occurred I tend to not believe that is the case. Instead, I consider the brother's theological perspective to be a total wreck even though his grasp of Arminian soteriology is pretty good. If this was not a pattern I might not be as concerned.
I agree with A. M. M. That gentleman's conclusion was "I have come to the conclusion that many LDSers are, from my perspective, anyway, very confused about theology. IF Bob believes Jesus always was and is and always will be God equal with the Father and the Son, then I have no problem being open to accepting him as a Christian."
I don't care if ANY Mormon believes that Jesus "always was and is and always will be God equal with the Father," that does not make a Mormon a born-again Christian, and he should know better.
AMEN! But this is what happens when you don't embrace the Bible as the final authority for faith and practice. When the Bible is cast aside in favor of feelings, denominations, etc. then you can rest assured that Mormons will be welcomed into the "kingdom."
At least our brother James White still is preaching that cults are cults!
Jc_Freak has been more objective here.
The Seeking Disciple:
Actually, he does embrace the Bible as the final authority on faith and practice. So... clearly you are wrong on that point.
Billy and AMM,
But he says he is unsure! I agree with you that he shouldn't make a strong statement about Mormonism while being ignorant about them. All of his statements are conditional, and within the combox he consistently complains about how muddy the theological waters of Mormonism is. Indeed, his whole point to me seems to be that Mormonism is so disjoint that it is difficult to say much on it conclusively at all.
Now, I would say that the mormons are heretics. No problem there at all, but I seem to know a bit more about them, and when I first started investigating them, I had the same position he did. He is trying be fair as he is beginning to look into them, and I don't see how that is a bad thing.
JC,
If what you suggest is true, that the gentleman lacks a working knowledge of Mormonism, why in the world is he engaged in "ecumenical" discourse with them? Instead of running to the "ecumenical" conferences with heretics, he might be better served by sitting down with people who have studied these cults and can reasonably explain why they are not Christian. Rob Bowman would be an excellent resource and he is easily approachable.
I am rather certain I can find a Mormon, a Jehovah Witness or an SDA adherent that will say all the nice things I want to hear but having some working knowledge of what these cults and sects actually teach their followers allows me to refute their use of common terminology.
Lastly, rather than extend a welcoming hand to the heretics hoping they might "reform" themselves to Christian orthodoxy at some point, I feel it is better to "stand in the gap" and preach the Word of God to them. With the conviction of the Holy Spirit, let them come out of their spiritual whoredoms rather than rest in them with the acquiescence of Arminian academics.
Perhaps its time for some of those who claim to serve the LORD to step away from dusty books and safe conferences and start putting boot, shoes, sandals or whatever on the ground. They will find a LOT of people who actually do believe the things the academic says they do not know or understand.
Wesley,
You may be right since I have a strong bias against those sympathetic to aberrant theologies. I honestly believe that Arminianism, at least the classical and or Reformed variety of orthodox Arminian theology, is not at all well served by such brethren. We have enough to deal with among our Calvinist friends who label all of us with these same aberrations without having to fight against them in our own camp. However, such are the pratfalls of the "big tent".
Roy,
I will give James White at least that much but please don't ask me to give more ground than that. :)
Now this was a post that was easy to read and understandable. What is sad is that there are so many who might argue with you.
Grace and peace.
Pumice,
It is a sure bet there are factions of Christians who will adamantly declare Mormons and others to be Christians. I believe the brothers here are not of that mindset. Perhaps the problem begins when we try to be all-inclusive with a big tent approach and advance the idea that there are no boundaries to what we can embrace as evangelical Christianity.
Thanks for stopping by. I enjoy your proverbs blog a great deal.
AMM,
I think it is useful to have both irenic persons and polemic persons in the fold at the same time. Personally, I am rather irenic, much like the gentleman we are talking about, so I can see where he is coming from, though I disagree with him currently. However, despite the fact that I am sometimes put off by more polemic persons such as yourself, I realisze that it is necessary to have people who are going to attack.
It comes back to the idea that we have difference giftings. If everyone was polemical, then we would all be on constant attack mode. If we were all irenic, we wouldn't be able to stand for anything. I think it seves the body of Christ better to have some who are irneic and some who are polemica, rather than having everyone one find the perfect balence themselves.
Additionally, I dont think that reading secondary literature is always the best methodology. How does one assess the honesty of that secondary literature? I believe that it is important in a situation like this to have both primary and secondary sources.
In other words, one should consult a person like Bowman, but should also talk to those who truly are Mormons, and then compare. Often these people that present these cases are biased, and do some misrepresentations. On the other hand, one cannot expect to get a broad picture of a full organization like the LDS church simply from talking to the few that you might meet. Therefore both is necessary. Again the point is balance.
I hope that the good doctor does supplament his investigation in to the LDS church with some secondary material. However, one cannot blame him for wanting to hear things from the horse's mouth.
JC,
I would add to your suggestion as well that one interested in understanding Mormon doctrine explore the actual Mormon resources that provide the actual teachings of the Mormon church rather than rely on the public relations wing of the LDS. They are very good at playing the PR game. To see that in action, search "Are Mormons Christian" on Youtube. Their elders are quite active in this regard.
Absolutely. I would agree 100% with that. Of course there is also the question of whether or not a church can repent. The SDA would be a possible example of that, though LDS would not. I would never except the LDS as Christian unless they officially come forward and recant certain positions.
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